Everyday Runners

EDR #37: On doing running ethnography in Ethiopia and how to think better about East African running cultures - interview with Michael Crawley

Hello and welcome to Episode #37! 
This episode features an interview with Michael Crawley, awesome of two brilliant books: Out of Thin Air and the very recent To the Limit - both published by Bloomsbury (shout out to them for producing quality non-fiction books, btw). 
Mike is one of those rare beasts who knows the theoretical jargon, yet doesn't limit his writing or thinking to the academy. He is both well-read and an academic! It's possible! He's also a 2:20 marathoner. Just saying. 
This is (yet again) one of my favourite episodes. I loved the way Mike engaged with my questions on his writings where he explores technology, the agency of a runner, what running means, how 'energy' can be shared. And so on. And yes, we even discuss the controversy regarding Ruth Chepng'etich's marathon world record. 
He is based at Durham University in the UK. 
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If this episode tickles your fancy, don't hesitate to smash the review button on Spotify or to send me a message by one of the following means. Go wild. 
Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #36: The Singular Life of Véronique Chance as Artist-Runner

Hello and welcome to Episode 36 of EDR. This episode features an interview with Véronique Chance a London-based artist who works with running. For Chance, running is a tool with which to ask questions about geography, the environment, space and our social, cultural and political context (my framing). 
I enjoyed this conversation a lot for it reminded me of how close running can be to being a game and artistic practice, rather than simply being a competitive sport with clear and fixed boundaries, mega-competitions with each competitor only fixated on getting a PB or winning. 
Chance speaks of her very interesting run, The Great Orbital Run, in which she ran around London roughly following the orbital road. We speak about her upcoming run from London to Cambridge and her project of running from London to Venice. And to think we didn't even mention the term 'ultra' once during the conversation :) 
So yeah, that's all from me. I hope you enjoy the conversation. 
Doi doi. 
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From Chance's website: 
Véronique Chance is an artist and academic with a long-term interest in the representation of the body and its relationship to performance, documentation, technology and the embodied dynamics of spectatorship. This is closely linked to her practice-led PhD research, completed in 2013 at Goldsmith’s College, University of London, during which she developed an endurance running-based art practice as part of a larger enquiry into the performative nature of human physical activity.
Véronique currently teaches on and leads the MA Fine Art and MA Printmaking courses at Cambridge School of Art, Anglia Ruskin University (ARU). She is based in London and her work has been shown across the UK and Internationally, in China, Canada, Korea, Spain, Italy, Belgium and France.
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #35: “If you can run today, then actually, that’s good enough”, interview with Sarah Ackland

Hello and welcome to Episode 35 of Everyday Runners. 
How do women experience space differently from men? What does it mean to run through a city as a woman? What is this thing with cat calls, harassment and interference of women while running? What is the gendered labor of fear? What does 'running to repair' mean? 
These are some of the points I discussed with architect, researcher, runner (and feminist) Sarah Ackland of Newcastle University. I enjoyed this conversation very much and I hope you do too. 
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I can’t really choose between favourite episodes as each one has been special to me. So, although I can’t call this a ‘favourite’ so to speak, this one does hold a special place. I found myself being challenged a fair bit, both in my preparation and during the actual conversation. I say challenged because I got the impression that Sarah wasn’t taking any of my questions for granted and was answering each of them with a very straight bat, to use a cricket metaphor. Although I had sent questions to Sarah before the interview, I don’t think we stuck to the script. Each of her answers prompted a new question, probably in a different direction from which I had planned. 
 
This is also the first episode in which I must state a trigger warning, for this conversation does discuss male sexual violence against women. Sarah does talk about rape. At the conclusion of the conversation, I asked Sarah if we would need a ‘trigger warning’ and yes she said that would be appropriate. So, I implore listeners to listen with open and responsible ears. This is not a sensationalist podcast and we don’t look for controversy or polarisation. The issues Sarah and I speak of are real and embodied. Thus, I hope this episode is a part of a wider discussion on the gendered nature of public space and how access to running is not even. 
 
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR.#34: “it is what I came for, but it also isn’t what I came for”: Noah Schutte on his debut marathon

Well, it turns out, it’s true what they say, the marathon is a bit of a difficult nut to crack: even for the elite of us runners. In this episode, I speak with local Leiden legend, Noah Schutte, about his marathon debut, which took place on 20th October 2024. 
I first interviewed Noah back in Episode 14, way back in July. In that episode, we talk more generally about his running journey - not sure how to not use the word ‘journey’ - and a fair bit about his coaches and training practices. 
In this conversation, we speak just about how the marathon went down: preparation, immediate post-race feelings, pacing and what happened when things started to not go as planned. One thing that struck me during the conversation, was that it seemed like Noah experienced something that so many of us experience in every race we do: our legs not working the way we’d like them to. Even though things went awry on this day, I’m pleased to have heard Noah say that it won’t be his last marathon and that - if anything - it has made him more curious about how to unpick the marathon puzzle. 
This a rather relaxed and unstructured conversation, but we do our best to stay on point. At the end of the conversation, Noah generously asks me about my Eindhoven marathon. I tried to keep it as brief as possible for those who have already listened to my review. Another thing that I took from Noah’s thinking about his marathon, was his beautiful simplicity in just stating, on his Strava post, ‘it wasn’t in my legs today’: yep, that’s just how it is sometimes. Or most of the times. There was no laborious mentioning of wind, circumstances or preparation. Just, ‘my legs weren’t up to it.’ One thing is for sure though, Noah will be back and firing sooner rather than later. 
This is probably the last marathon review episode for a while. Upcoming episodes include discussions on the gendered nature of running; making running-related art, as well as an interview with an author of a rather well-selling book on running in Ethiopia. As always, I seek to mix up the kinds of episodes I do on this podcast: from research-based episodes, to those which deal with the nuts and bolts of so-called ‘performance’ running. I’m trying to mix up the discourses of running: it’s something that many of us love doing and it is also a sport which is subject to various problematic cultural and political structures. But more on that another time. 
For the moment, enough of my chattering and I hope you enjoy this chat with Noah Schutte. 
*Accompanying image by Erik van Leeuwen
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #33 Autumn Marathon Season - Marcella Herzog vs Amsterdam Marathon (in Dutch)

EDR #33: Autumn Marathon Season - Marcella Herzog on her Amsterdam Marathon (in Dutch)
 
Hello and welcome (halo en welkom!) to a special edition of Everyday Runners, I’m Andy Fuller. This episode is in Dutch and features Maaike van Gelder interviewing Marcella Herzog about her Amsterdam Marathon. 
In the initial discussion about the podcast between Marcella, Maaike and myself, the possibility of doing it in Dutch came up. I’m trying to be as loose as I can be in doing this podcast; not worrying about too many rules or structures. Just doing it, as the motto of that sports apparel brand goes. So, saying ‘yes’ to doing it in Dutch was somehow more fitting than saying, ‘no, we have to stick to english’. Most of the listeners to the podcast are based in the Netherlands and I of course don’t know the percentage of non-Dutch-speaking, NL-living listeners are, but, it is also not a primary concern. 
I know one thing though and that my increasing familiarity with the Dutch-language (i’m reluctant to use the word ‘fluency’) is one thing that makes me feel more at home here. I’m also somewhat against the idea of English being used, in every situation all of the time. And yes, I also think that there is too much accommodation made towards English-dominant folk here in NL. 
Anyway, back to the episode. The host is Maaike van Gelder, who was featured in Episode #8 of Everyday Runners. I’m thrilled that she has been able to be a part of the episode with Jasmijn Lau (Episode #22) and now this one. So, if listeners need a category to put my episodes into, this one also features an emerging and strong athlete. 
Marcella Herzog is an athlete based in Arnhem and is a three-time Dutch national champion. She got a time of 2:33:10 in her debut marathon in Rotterdam in 2024. Marcella trains with Running Team Liemers and her coach is Titus Fierkens. She works with the family business, Herzog Medical, and as you can hear throughout the podcast, she is looking forward to performing a little better at a future marathon. 
So, enough of this blither blather, here is the interview and I hope you enjoy it. 
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Relevant Links
Marcella Herzog: website; Instagram; IAAF
Titus Fierkens: website
Running Team Liemers: website
Maaike van Gelder: Episode #8 & Episode #22
 
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #32: “Running blind”, interview with with Jess MacBeth and Ben Powis

“For many runners, habitually traversing the same route time and time again is central to the experience of running. More than a series of points on a map, running routes are lived social places made meaningful through repeated cognitive and corporeal interactions with the physical environment (Allen-Collinson and Hockey 2015; Hockey 2006). As Baxter (2021, 141) argues ‘the relationship between running and place is two-way. The sites of running shape the meanings of the activity, but runners are also actively engaged in defining the meanings of the sites themselves’. In this context, the running route is a place-event which is sensorially lived, developed and refined over time and unique to each runner. Yet, for visually impaired (VI) runners, the route has additional significance: James, a VI runner, states: “I need to know the route because I need to know if the curb is out of line or pavement sticking up because I can’t see it underneath my eyes. So, I’ll be scanning to take in that information and store it. I know where tree trunks are starting to come out through the ground and stuff like that . . . I’m always very observant of everything in front of me; trying to map it out, you know. Are there any branches on the floor? Any potholes? People? Dogs? And I just try and map it all in my brain as I run and kind of have it running in my head . . . I could subconsciously tell you where every crack on the pavement is.” 
This is a passage from a recent article by Ben Powis and Jess MacBeth: ‘Running blind: the sensory practices of Visually Impaired runners’, published in Qualitative Research in Sport, Exercise and Health in 2023. 
What does it mean to run with a visual impairment? How do VI runners navigate their environment using sound, smell, feel and touch? How do the senses inform VI and sighted practices of running? These are some of the questions I discuss with the authors of this paper - Jess MacBeth, of University of Central Lancashire  and Ben Powis of Bournemouth University. 
By way of introduction: Jess is a Senior Lecturer in Sports Studies. She teaches the sociology of sport and physical education, with a particular interest in equity and equality issues experienced by disabled people and women. Her research expertise lies specifically in visually impaired sport and her work has contributed to debates surrounding classification in disability sport.
Dr Ben Powis is a Senior Lecturer (Sport) in the Department of Sport and Event Management at Bournemouth University. His research interests build upon this field of inquiry and include the sociology of disability sport, visually impaired peoples’ experiences of sport and physical activity and investigating the significance of sensuous sporting experiences.
I’d like to thank both Jess and Ben for their time and sharing their research through the podcast. So, without further chitter chatter from myself, here is the interview and I hope you enjoy it.
 
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #31: "The best laid (marathon) plans...": Joao and Andy humour each other over their Autumn Marathon performances

This week’s episode has been a bit slow in coming. I’ve been suffering a little from post-marathon lethargy and confusion as I try and compute my race. So it is. 
But, nonetheless, this episode features the fellow Everyday Runners - or EDR, as I might abbreviate it to - OG, Joao Seixas. When we did the very first episodes of the podcast, we were full of optimism about how our Rotterdam marathons might go. Now, we have both done two autumn marathons: Joao the Berlin classic, and myself the less-famous Eindhoven marathon. Separate from my own performance, I have to say, I rate it very highly as a well-organised, mid-size marathon. I would recommend it to marathoners in the Netherlands or Belgium who might want to avoid the intensity of Rotterdam and Amsterdam. 
These conversations are pretty much unscripted. Although we had briefly talked about our own performances prior to the recording, we tried to keep it as candid as possible. I haven’t edited much out. 
If you’re listening to this before doing the Amsterdam Marathon on the weekend: I wish you the best of luck. And to enjoy it as much as possible. I will be going to watch, because I feel a little drawn to it. Even though interacting with friends and fellow runners is hard during the race, I always get a buzz out of the positive running vibes. 
A little note: during the first half of the episode, there is an occasional pinging noise. This is the sound Joao’s telephone makes every time he utters a running-cliche. The first part of this episode features me asking Joao questions about his Berlin performance, then at about minute 25, it switches to myself talking about Eindhoven. These recordings were made on different days. There’s just a quick transition between them in which we greet each other for a second time. 
Okay: that’s all for this introduction. I hope you enjoy the conversation between Joao and myself. 
Doi doi 
 
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #30.1 “The biggest factor in you having a great race, is your own patience”: Niels talks with Andy about his Eindhoven marathon preparation

This episode is based around Niels Esmeijer asking questions about my training and preparation for the Eindhoven Marathon on Sunday 13th October, 2024. 
 
Doing this episode is a means to hold myself accountable to how I think I’m feeling now and how I’m aiming to do this race. Niels is one of the persons who I have been in a dialogue with throughout my training, so, he is not totally unfamiliar with how I’ve been going. 
 
I’ve got three main goals for this race. The first is to race it well; to enjoy it and to get a PB. By racing it well, I mean, being patient until deep into the race. Enjoyment is clear enough: but yes, I guess it means, ‘being in the moment’. For a PB: well, my last three marathons have been 2:36, 2:35 and 2:37. So, setting off at a pace of 3:40 per kilometre is, I believe, something I’m capable of. I’m sticking messages and my splits to my gels so that they can provide me with visual reminders of what I need to do to race well. 
 
Running seems like an individual sport. But I think that is overstated. I know I’ve got to this point in my marathon block thanks to Joji Mori, Neils Esmeijer, the Leiden Atletiek crew, led by Bram Wassenaar and Han Kulker and two of my local besties Joao and Leon. 
 
As I record this, Leiden is having perfect autumn conditions. I’m convinced that this is the most beautiful season in the Netherlands. We’re being enveloped in so-called Dutch light: the sun shining through the low-dark clouds, the light being reflected off the water-scapes. Showers come and go quickly; storms seem to brew, only not to break out. Running in autumn can be mightily unpleasant at times, but, it can also provide the most stable and perfect conditions. I hope this weather holds until Sunday afternoon. But, whatever the case, the conditions are part of the race. 
 
Anyway, without much more from me, before there is more from me talking with Niels; I’ll sign off. Thanks for listening and I hope that there is something in this following discussion to keep you coming back, at a later point for another episode. 
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

EDR #30: Autumn Marathon Season: with Niels Esmeijer: "Being a part of something bigger"

This episode, and the next, features a conversation between Niels Esmeijer and myself. Niels is the coach atMTFU, and he is also frequent pacer for athletes to reach their sub-2:30 marathon goals. His own PB is 2:25. Interestingly, he says that he races well when pacing others. But yes, as we keep saying, ‘times are only part of the story’. But, I guess, times are important for getting a ballpark idea about from which ‘running perspective’ one is coming from. 
In this episode we discuss some of the pitfalls of doing a world major marathon in comparison to a smaller, local race; we discuss mileage versus efficacy and how to make sure you’re organised on race day. 
Themes discussed:
Berlin: a spontaneous marathon?
Pacing athletes and racing strategy
Chaos in the last hour before the race and climbing fences 
Problematic aid stations; hard plastic cups on the course
World major marathons or local marathons and races?
First time races: is it better to start smaller and ‘control the controllables’
Pre-race routine: doing it with friends or alone? 
Practicing the race day experience: know what works for you
High mileage training: diminishing returns? 
Running and life balance: life happens, but roll with it
“winning has a lot of definitions”
Mileage vs efficacy: mileage is important but it is not the be all and end all 
*Photo used in episode image by Bjorn Paree @runoutofhell
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Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com 

#29 "Sometimes running is simply a matter of taste", conversation with science writer and runner, Mariska van Sprundel

Welcome to Episode 29 of Everyday Runners, I’m Andy Fuller. It’s still raining. I’m in the final stages for my Eindhoven marathon preparation. Some of you may have done Berlin. Others may be doing Amsterdam or Melbourne. Autumn is well and truly here. 
Everyday Runners reached a minor milestone last week with the 3000th download. Just as in running, numbers don’t tell the whole story. I’ve had some very nice feedback from friends and fellow-runners who have told me that they have listened to and enjoyed a particular episode. 
Also, on Saturday 28th, we held a running and drawing workshop at Garage art gallery in Rotterdam. This was a Reading Sideways Press event and it was a lot of fun to do some loopscholing, run technique exercises in an art gallery space. We then followed up with talking about running, bodies, movements. And of course, we then turned to drawing and talking about pens and pencils. The two activities melded into each other. 
This episode features an interview with Mariska van Sprundel, a runner and science writer based in Utrecht. Mariska is the author of “Running Smart: How Science Can Improve Your Endurance and Performance”, or in Dutch, “Alles wat je wilt weten over hardlopen”. The book was translated by Danny Guinan, with funding from the Dutch Foundation for Literature. How cool that money was available for this. I first read the book way back in 2022 and I found it unusual as a running book for it was written in a cool-headed, unhyped manner. Mariska not only encourages us to be skeptical about many running hypes, but also to maintain our critical lens when engaging with science: there is always more to explore and one piece of research won’t provide, a single, all-time, forever-true answer. 
I asked Mariska about: running shoes, running bodies, fatigue, injuries, therapy and strategies on how not to quit a race, when you feel like doing so. We also discussed her upcoming book on mental strategies in running, to be published by Volt next year. 
Finally, if you are new to this podcast, please smash the review button on Spotify; share it with your friends and multiply it via your social media - if you like. 
That’s all from me. 
Until next time, doi doi-
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Episode Overview
MvS as Science Writer;  Runner; Bunny keeper
Motivation for Running
Festival vibe of running in NL
Shoes: how they matter
don’t believe the hype
Bodies and running
“but that doesn’t mean that you can’t run if you have another body type”
Are East African athletes ‘naturally’ good at running? 
Gender and running
“you have to find a balance between finding a decent sports bra and being able to breathe”
taboo breaking
Do runners live longer? 
But the thing is, is it running, or are there are other sports which could make us so healthy?
Where injuries happen
The virtues of beetroot juice
Running therapy
The rhythm of running
Being addicted to running? 
How the book came to be translated into English
What are you writing about now? 
forthcoming book/mental challenges of running and racing
performance vs joy
Positive or instructional self-talk 
On not quitting
Relevant Links: 
Mariska van Sprundel, website & Instagram 
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KWF fundraising for Eindhoven Marathon: KWF
Andy Fuller/Reading Sideways Press
Strava: Andy Fuller
Instagram: Everyday Runners Leiden
Twitter/X: @readingsideways
Email: everydayrunnerspodcast@gmail.com